Max Verstappen says Red Bull are finding it difficult to work out where they have gone wrong with their car during the 2024 season.
Red Bull enjoyed a significant performance advantage over their rivals in the opening rounds of the championship but McLaren soon closed the gap and Mercedes emerged as another threat before the summer break.Verstappen admitted his car’s balance has deteriorated since the season began as the team has tried to extract more performance from its RB20.
“It wasn’t there in the first few races,” said Verstappen after finishing a distant second to McLaren’s Lando Norris last weekend. “But something in the car has made it more difficult to drive.
“It’s very hard to pinpoint where that is coming from at the moment. And that is then hurting our one-lap performance, but also our long run.”
McLaren and Mercedes have won all of the last five races, resulting in Verstappen’s longest win-less stretch since the end of 2020.
“That happens,” he said. “I’ve had a lot of good years. Some people have never won a race in their career, so you can also look at it like that.
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“From my side, we at the moment don’t have the fastest car. We have some issues that we have to solve and we are working on that. That’s the only thing I can say about that.
“We’re very focused on it. There’s still a lot of races left, a lot of different kinds of tracks. This weekend was just not our best weekend.”
Verstappen expects a much tougher race at Monza this weekend than last year, when he scored a record-breaking tenth consecutive victory. He said the resurfacing done at the track since then makes it harder to predict how competitive they will be.
“We just need to figure out our balance issues,” he said. “I think that will already help a lot also with [tyre degradation].
“Of course, in Monza, a lot is new. Tarmac, kerbs, even the layout in turn one-two. So also that we need to understand a bit more, but we know that we have quite a bit of work to do.”
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2024 Dutch Grand Prix
- Previous technical hires no obstacle to Newey joining Aston Martin – Krack
- Mercedes still unsure whether Spa floor upgrade is working
- McLaren’s Dutch GP upgrade “nowhere near” as significant as Miami package
- “Very hard to pinpoint” why car has become harder to drive – Verstappen
- Only one F1 driver is making worse starts than Norris in 2024
Michael Ingraham
28th August 2024, 15:14
I can help Max. Have your guys take a look at the changes to your car’s braking systems. 😉
Alex
28th August 2024, 15:39
It’s motor racing. The best driver can only get P2 in the 3rd fastest car.
Vikrant Singla
28th August 2024, 16:20
3rd?
Davethechicken
28th August 2024, 16:58
“While Verstappen urges his team to push on with car development, in real terms the RB20 remains the most competitive car in F1. On average it has been 0.11% off the ultimate pace this year compared to 0.32% for the next-best car, McLaren’s MCL38.”
This is from the racefans analysis of the cars paces for the 5 races before the Dutch GP.
MacLeod (@macleod)
29th August 2024, 7:57
I think some people should take lessons on racing times as Race pace isn’t the same as Qualify pace. Cars react different on fuel loads, wind and temperatures.
We can say McLaren is the fastest car for several races now, sometimes Mercedes is faster (then RB) but it’s circuit specific.
If RB was faster Max would drive away from Lando at the Dutch GP but strange enough Max couldn’t escape and Lando drove quit easy past him and ended 22-23 seconds behind Lando.
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 13:06
The author I think might be aware of the difference between race pace and qualifying.
If you have a counter analysis please provide it.
Asd
28th August 2024, 20:42
Or maybe, the 4th best driver can only get P2 in the by far fastest car?
We can’t know nothing for a fact.
Edvaldo
28th August 2024, 15:52
It’s been obvious. I never agreed with this crap of “they reached the top of their concept” because they got worse than they were, out of nowhere.
The others improved, in particular Mclaren, but Max was not complaining so much at the first leg of the season and suddenly he was complaining a lot while still winning, as a sign of things to come. And now they’re not even winning anymore, by a bit of bad luck too, though. He would’ve won Austria without that bad pit and would win Spa had they chosen another race to take the penalty. And Miami too was in the pocket until the Safety Car, but these things happen.
MacLeod (@macleod)
29th August 2024, 8:02
You know last season they already said it’s hard to get faster with upgrades as they reach or came near the top of that design….
McLaren was the worst team so 1 good upgrade could give big improvements but they are already in the fase that the time gain get smaller with each upgrade.
Optimaximal (@optimaximal)
28th August 2024, 16:40
So we’re all definitely sure it’s nothing to do with the FIA’s Asymmetric Braking ruling ahead of the Dutch GP, right?
timber
28th August 2024, 16:47
And how come redbull was already slower races BEFORE that? Please enlighten me with your knowledge! Because you seem to know more.
SteveP
28th August 2024, 17:21
Not saying it is that, and not saying it isn’t.
However, something changed a few races back which had a negative impact.
A sensible action on any change that gives a negative impact, is to revert.
They haven’t, for some inexplicable reason. Maybe it’s something they can’t revert.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
28th August 2024, 19:13
its either the tires that Pirelli are cooking or they got caught. They got caught makes more sense because Jos got behind the story and started pedaling drama, scapegoating horner, and trying to land a deal with Merc.
MadMax (@madmax)
28th August 2024, 20:27
somewhere i read rumors about some centrifugal valve, that got detected and they were forced to remove/replace. but no clue, what its about technically and whether there is some truth behind that.
anon
28th August 2024, 20:57
timber, the reason why speculation is ongoing is because, whilst the official rule change occurred more recently, there are plenty of historical precedents of the FIA instructing a team to remove a part first, and then tightening the regulations at a later date to close any loopholes.
Since some have drawn an analogy with the turning brake system used by McLaren in the late 1990s, it’s worth remembering that the FIA knew about the system since November 1997, when it came out into the public domain that McLaren was using it on the MP4/12.
In 1998, after McLaren’s performance in the Australian GP, we then had the protests launched by Ferrari ahead of the Brazilian GP, where the stewards decided the braking system was illegal (although Charlie Whiting had previously told McLaren he was of the opinion that the system was legal).
McLaren removed the turning brake system in Brazil, but the FIA didn’t make their first changes to the regulations to discourage others from running that system in 1998. However, it wasn’t until the FIA published the regulations for the 1999 season, nearly 14 months after the turning brakes were first discovered, that the FIA changed the regulations on the braking systems to fully outlaw that system.
There are other examples of the FIA choosing to enact a ban on a part first, and then changing the regulations at a later date – sometimes substantially later – to make the ban permanent. Quite a few times in the past, and in this particular case, the FIA sometimes delays the formal change in the regulations until the next World Motorsport Council meeting takes place, as those events allow the FIA to introduce regulation changes more easily during the season.
Now, whether that means Red Bull were or were not using that system is another matter – I can see why some are speculating about it, although I am doubtful that they did have that system. However, given the FIA has quite frequently banned a part first and then changed the rules later, it would therefore be possible for the FIA to have quietly ordered Red Bull to make a change to the RB20 first, and then introduced a rule clarification at a later date when it was easier to push the measure through.
Nick T.
29th August 2024, 2:15
People trying to call out brake asymmetry are ignoring the numerous areas the RBR was dominant in where braking played zero part. This brake thing also seem to ignore the fact that the McLarens + others have been catching up steadily for a long time.
Finally, even if it was part of their issue, all it means is they were better at finding and exploiting loopholes than other teams. The same people who try to say “oh, RBR just cheating” would defend their favorite team had they been doing the same thing. And, for the record, I’m not a Red Bull fan. It’s just generally ridiculous anytime people imply a team was cheating anytime a loophole is closed in the rules when the whole history of the sport is finding both design solutions and loopholes to beat the competition.
Bob
29th August 2024, 8:08
Max doesnt brake during corners no more, his entrance speed to corners is also slower, So i guess, people are only looking at the evidence.
Optimaximal (@optimaximal)
29th August 2024, 8:51
When did I say they were cheating? I just said their sharp performance drop off compared to McLaren in the Dutch GP – a twisty winding track that would favour a trick braking system – might be purely down to the removal/banning of said trick braking system.
Nick T.
29th August 2024, 9:06
I never said that you said they were cheating. I said there are people out there trying to portray it as RBR was caught out cheating. However, I could see why you thought that was directed at you.
MacLeod (@macleod)
29th August 2024, 8:11
There were some teamS planning to use that system so FIA decided to bring a clarification on that part before teams would use it. So 1 of those teams could be Mercedes who used clever device like the DAS before.
So what Anon and Nick T. said makes more sense then pointing to Red Bull.
Davethechicken
28th August 2024, 17:00
“While Verstappen urges his team to push on with car development, in real terms the RB20 remains the most competitive car in F1. On average it has been 0.11% off the ultimate pace this year compared to 0.32% for the next-best car, McLaren’s MCL38.”
Quoted from the following article of the 5 races prior to the Dutch Gp
https://www.racefans.net/2024/08/13/no-f1-driver-says-they-have-the-quickest-car-maybe-this-time-theyre-all-correct/
Davethechicken
28th August 2024, 17:01
Sorry, meant as reply to Timber above
Peat Smoke
29th August 2024, 7:55
Lol. Analysis based on the fastest laps in qualifying. And the results aren’t a surprise, given Red Bull’s early superiority and McLaren’s relative weakness. But the author doesn’t bother to point that out. He acts like the Bed Bull is still the best because of an early advantage that has been long gone.
Meanwhile race pace analysis done by f1pace analysis shows Austria as the last time when the Red Bull was fastest on Sunday. Excluding first five races, the only other GP where the car had the best race pace was Spain, but only marginally and probably mostly thanks to McLaren’s alternative strategy after Norris’ classic bad start. Furthermore the f1pace data shows a trend that has been obvious: the McLaren has been the fastest car since Miami. They had the best race pace there, at Imola, Montreal, Budapest and Zandvoort. That’s 5-2 for McLaren since Miami.
Lol, but Red Bull the best ’cause qualifying lap times. Everything to preserve the British narrative I guess.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
29th August 2024, 10:11
Davethechicken – your quote refers to the entire season, not the five races before the Dutch gp. The paragraph after the one you quoted is as follows:
Peat Smoke – the article does give context for both stats and states that the relative competitiveness of the teams has changed over the season. However, while absolute one-lap pace is the easiest metric to use as a comparison, it does not reflect the changes in race pace, and the biggest change since the start of the season is that at the start of the season the Redbull was by far the best car in terms of looking after its tyres, and in recent races that has been the McLaren on average, though Mercedes was also strong in some races, e.g Silverstone and Spa.
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 13:24
Keith, would disagree Mercedes or McLaren were stronger in either Silvertstone or Belgium.
In Silverstone Max shredded.his inters lost time but came back with pace.( A recurring theme of Max pushing too hard on initial laps on tyres this year even in the last race breaking drs immediately but be overtook 20 laps later)
At Spa Red Bull seemed super quick, Max blitzed pole and Sergio qualifying was good by a his admittedly poor standard.
Max of course had the engine 10 place penalty and was stuck in DRS train but overtook the McLaren. Sergio was screwed by his own team to try to improve Max’s position and would probably have had a podium assuming George didn’t two stop in response. Without penalty Max would have won Spa easily.
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 13:34
Peat I don’t disagree the trend is closer, Red Bull were a different league for the first five.
But this analysis was the last five races before Holland.
It would be good if you could post a link to the counter analysis.
Even in Spa Red Bull would have been untouchable, but Max starting 11th meant he was in a DRS train. He would have won easily if he started in pole.
Races like Silverstone, Austria, Holland and Hungary we have seen Max over push at the start of stints and pay for it later. Even his race engineer chastised him for this. Austria was compounded by a slow out stop otherwise again Max would have never had to defend from Norris.
Max also said after the race he backed off in Dutch GP when he thought he couldn’t pass Norris so the gap looks much greater than it was.
Peat Smoke
29th August 2024, 15:39
Google f1pace dot com and you’re going to find a true abundance of data, most importantly: mean race pace in every GP. And since Miami the data shows that Red Bull was faster than McLaren in Monaco (the least represantaive GP in terms of race pace), Spain and Austria. Which is why their car is reffered to as the best.
The analysis you’re so fond of is based on qualifying, which is irrelevant because points are scored on Sunday.
No, we haven’t seen. You have seen it. I have frankly seen something different: Verstappen struggling with the car which has been a fairly common theme since Miami. Your view of Verstappen’s alleged shortcomings can be easily be easily countered Norris’ mistakes. And boy, he was far from perfect, as he himself admitted.
Yes, Verstappen could’ve won in Belgium. Well the same goes for Norris in Imola, Canada, or Spain, or the Austrian sprint, yada yada. We can only measure what happened, not what could’ve been. And the data I’m referring to supports “the McLaren is the best since Miami” thesis.
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 16:45
Lol, I had a look. F1 race pace, a blog by Hugo and Jimmy???
I would sooner go with race fans
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 16:55
F1 race pace analysis doesn’t show what you say at all. You misrepresented it.
It is a summation of lap times, and doesn’t reflect actual pace at all.
Look at Hungary where they state Ham had more pace than Max. Obviously Max was much faster than Lewis there but we all know what happened
Peat Smoke
30th August 2024, 8:00
Allow me to enlighten you, Dave, how race pace is measured: you collect racing laps and then you calculate an average. It’s that simple. And indeed it reflects what I’ve been saying. Everyone can see it on the graphs.
I’m terribly, terribly sorry the data does not reflect your views of who and where was faster than others. Probably that’s why you dismiss it with ad hominem. Otherwise you can’t preserve your Verstappen bashing agenda.
Davethechicken
30th August 2024, 14:05
Peat, let me explain as you seem to not understand. Simply adding together the sum of the racing laps does not tell you who has the fastest car. It tells you who won the race.
The website neither claims to or states which car is faster it is simply the summation of racing laps.
If you cannot understand why this does not equate to who has the fastest car the concept must be too complex for you, but the Hamilton example in Hungary clearly illustrates your mistaken thinking.
Peat Smoke
31st August 2024, 12:50
That’s how race pace is measured, though. Not only by the website in question, but also by f1 data analysis on twitter and everyone. You just dismiss it, because it doesn’t fit your agenda.
It presents race pace in every GP. And by looking at it, you can clearly see the general trend of the McLaren being the best since Miami. But of course you’ll dismiss because reasons. And your example from Hungarian GP illustrates only that you disagree with the data.
If it so complex to, then tell me o wise one, how we should measure race pace? Because it’s on Sundays where the performance matters the most, not on Saturdays which your preferred analysis reflects.
Furthermore if you’re so hellbent on analysis strictly showing “the faster car” then you should cite the graph shown today during FP3, illustrating performance gains fron Bahrain to Holland. Trigger warning: it agrees with my point. I wonder what kind of mental gymnastics you’ll use to dismiss it.
Mayrton
29th August 2024, 17:34
Well at least it is a pretty obvious bending of the narrative.
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 19:12
I didn’t write the article Mayrton.
However keep exaggerating Max as superhuman at ever possible chance,
MacLeod (@macleod)
29th August 2024, 8:14
That is not correct you must compair all laptimes to get the whole picture not only qualify as Peat Smoke said much beter then i can.
Davethechicken
29th August 2024, 13:15
Not my analysis McLeod, but as people are simply parroting that Red Bull is no longer fastest line the actual analysis above tells a different story.
I don’t believe Red Bull was slower in Belgium. They seemed fastest, by some margin, but Max was in a DRS train. If he had started pole he would have won at a canter. Sergio was sacrificed for Max and lost a higher finish.
Doh
28th August 2024, 20:50
Formula “Nobody Understands Their Car Or Upgrade” One
Nick T.
29th August 2024, 2:28
I mean seriously…the first page of RF right now has three teams saying that (Ferrari, Red Bull & Mercedes) + others who’ve said that basically all season also include Aston Martin. It’s funny that 4 of the top 5 teams have been giving us this line for half the season while the bottom 5 seem to rarely say it: Haas, Williams, Alpine, Toro Rosso and Sauber (it’s telling they’re doing so little that they don’t even have the opportunity to say we’re not sure why the updates aren’t working).
Nick T.
28th August 2024, 23:25
Yeah, Newey left and you guys have no idea how to setup the suspension nor design upgrades. People trying to call out brake asymmetry are ignoring the numerous areas the RBR was dominant in and also seem to ignore the fact that the McLarens have been catching up steadily for a long time.
basketball stars
5th September 2024, 9:58
It’s fascinating to see how the dynamics of the 2024 season have shifted so quickly. Red Bull’s dominance at the start of the year seemed unshakable, but McLaren and Mercedes have really stepped up their game. It’s a reminder of how even the smallest changes in setup or car development can have a significant impact, even for someone as consistent as Verstappen. Hopefully, Red Bull can pinpoint the issue soon and get back to form – it’ll be exciting to see how they handle the challenge at Monza, especially with all the changes to the track. Either way, it’s shaping up to be an intense battle for the rest of the season!